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eek! - 1370°C

Jul. 23rd, 2005

12:05 am - eek!

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by way of ilcylic: Ireland just got really scary

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From:elvendude
Date:July 22nd, 2005 09:20 pm (UTC)
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Blarg!

That...really sucks. What could the Irish government possibly be thinking? I thought they were still sore over the whole US using their military stuff for the "war."
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From:ilcylic
Date:July 22nd, 2005 10:38 pm (UTC)
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That's the peasants who are mad, not the aristocracy.

-Ogre
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From:alan_ie
Date:July 23rd, 2005 02:36 am (UTC)
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so true this country has a leadership that has always been of the opinion that they can run the country how they wan't regardless of the populace's opinion
and worse they are right because the majority of the people don't bother seeking any alternative so they effectivly keep these people in power generation after generation.
we are a country who seems unfamiliar with the concept of government being a tool the population employs to manage their country, we seem to {subconciously at least} have this idea that they run things and there is nothing we can do.

bloody revolution i say!
or chalenge it in the courts as an illegal attempt to undermine the soverign rights of our own legal system without constitutional ammendment {requiring a referendum}
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From:ilcylic
Date:July 23rd, 2005 08:22 am (UTC)
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[T]hey are right because the majority of the people don't bother seeking any alternative so they effectivly keep these people in power generation after generation.

Well, and you don't have any guns. Not that our politicians pay much attention to that anymore either.

-Ogre
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From:alan_ie
Date:July 23rd, 2005 08:58 am (UTC)
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revolutionarys with guns just results in dead revoutionarys with guns

to be successfull their military must be in some large part encouraged to be on your side ;)
{thus the usual goading the establishment into martering a large number of revolutionarys {usually the ones gullible enough to believe they arn't being used as cannon fodder}, to cause the docile populace to back their {often pointless} cause and sicken the military that are ordered to carry out the massacre
{ohh 1916 anyone?.... }
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From:ilcylic
Date:July 23rd, 2005 09:52 am (UTC)
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revolutionarys with guns just results in dead revoutionarys with guns

Governments certainly do encourage that belief, don't they?

Three words. Seventeen. Seventy. Five. :)

(*sigh* Not that I think enough of my countrymen have enough balls to pull something like that off again.)

-Ogre
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From:gothaminserenia
Date:July 23rd, 2005 06:28 pm (UTC)
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Not that I think enough of my countrymen have enough balls to pull something like that off again

Not so fast slick! I suspect some might disagree with you. 6,663 to be exact.

And, possibly in the not-so-distant future, perhaps 1 more ...
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From:ilcylic
Date:July 23rd, 2005 06:38 pm (UTC)
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I'm afraid that your statement does not change my opinion that the numbers are insufficient. If you multiplied that number by a thousand, or even a hundred, I might have some hope.

I really like your icon, BTW. :)

-Ogre
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From:ferrousoxide
Date:July 25th, 2005 07:32 am (UTC)
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i guess that's always the issue. we have the *right* to overthrow the government, but it seems to me that the citizens (maybe it's apathy, maybe it's just the way that it is) can just never *be* armed enough to do so if the military is on the side of the government and not our side.

incidentally, i asked several Irish folk whether their constitution allowed for the overthrow of their govt., and none could answer. so, when i looked it up online, i found that the 63-page Bunreacht na hEireann (Irish Constitution) lives here: http://www.taoiseach.gov.ie/upload/static/256.pdf
("fundamental rights" start on page 53 of the .pdf file)

interestingly, it does not seem to provide for the right to overthrow their government, and it was only the Fifteenth Amendment, passed in 1996 that allowed for "the dissolution of marriage in certain specified circumstances."

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From:(Anonymous)
Date:August 1st, 2005 09:29 pm (UTC)
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Interestingly, the state constitution of New Hampshire guarantees the right of its citizens to revolution, and as far as I know it's the only one in the world to explicitly do so ...

"Article 10. Government being instituted for the common benefit, protection, and security of the whole community, and not for the private interest or emolument of any one man, family, or class of men; therefore, whenever the ends of government are perverted, and public liberty manifestly endangered, and all other means of redress are ineffectual, the people may, and of right ought to reform the old, or establish a new government. The doctrine of nonresistance against arbitrary power and oppression is absurd, slavish, and destructive of the good and happiness of mankind."

But constitutions, and laws in general (except for common law), are arbitrary -- dependent on whatever one group of people at one point in time decided them to be. I agree with you; I think the right to revolt against unjust, corrupt, or authoritarian rulers is a right of all people anywhere ... regardless of whether or not some group of leaders from long ago "gave" them this right.
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From:gothaminserenia
Date:August 1st, 2005 09:35 pm (UTC)
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Oops ... neglected to login.
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